Publiez vos reportages (texte, photo, audio, vidéo)
si vous respectez les règles
de Dissident-media
Qui sommes
nous ?
Nous contacter
Comment soutenir
dissident-media.org
lsijolie.net:
Mobilisation contre les lois sécuritaires
Urfig Information sur la
Globalisation
Transnationale
(info sur les...)
Samizdat
(info)
A-Infos
(info)
No pasaran (anti
fafs)
Sans-Titre
(info)
Maloka (info)
Risbal
(info Amérique Latine)
Solidaridad.Ecuador
les résistances en Equateur (fr, es)
germany.indymedia.org
forumsocialmundial
Attac
|
email this story
| download as PDF | print article
A critique of
the attitude of Indymedia, other alternative media and individuals
during the protests in Brussels (December 2001)
After participating in the protests against the
EU-Summit in December 2001 in Brussels, we are still angry about
how many photos and videos were made during the different demonstrations.
Brussels was not the first time that we have noticed this (obviously
its happened before, but not on such a large scale), so we hope
that with this critique, we can start a discussion process which
we feel is vital.
Trash every
camera!
A critique of the
attitude of Indymedia, other alternative media and individuals
during the protests in Brussels (December 2001)
After participating in the protests against the
EU-Summit in December 2001 in Brussels, we are still angry about
how many photos and videos were made during the different demonstrations.
Brussels was not the first time that we have noticed this (obviously
its happened before, but not on such a large scale), so we hope
that with this critique, we can start a discussion process which
we feel is vital.
Actually
there is (or was) in Germany (and from what we know, in many
other countries as well) consensus to not use cameras and video-cameras
on actions, demonstrations, etc. In Brussels, we were really
shocked - on the right, on the left, in front of our faces, everywhere
were camera's clicking, even during the anarchist demo on Saturday.
At some points, people who had been taking pictures almost stopped
protestors who were walking, just to take close-up shots of them.
We have seen extremely absurd and ridiculous situations, when
alternative, corporate (and police) media formed lines together,
encircling places where direct actions (breaking windows,spraying,etc.)
had been taking place. This still didn´t seem to be disturbing
for anybody... WHY?!!
We
tried to stop this stupid and dangerous photographing, or at
least to push any kind of journalist out of demo, but of course
there were too many of them... From so-called alternative media
(for example Indymedia Germany) we heard idiotic statements,
like "Photo and film materials are helping to legitimise
our resistance". Such an attitude comes partially from a
naive, deep faith in the "democratic" system ("we
only need to REALLY explain our positions and they're going to
be accepted" way of thinking) and partially from a self-censoring
peacnik mentality ("anyway, we don´t wanna do anything
illegal" - as said by those types for which anything more
than distributing boring,reformist flyers "is not good for
the movement"). Indymedia people with which we attempted
to speak simply ignored our position or ensured us that they
"know how to deal with material". As we´ve seen
after lots of pictures, in which faces are recognisable, have
been published on-line and one guy from indymedia arrested with
6 rolls of film - that´s definitely not the case. It´s
clear that police will use confiscated materials to criminalise
activists. So, there is no reason to take photos or videos in
which you can see (and when the cops want, they can recognize
anybody from really bad quality pictures, better than her/his
friends could) any demonstrators. Or is it that you maybe want
to help the cops?
We hope
that it is obvious, that pictures for the family/friends album,
or taken to brag how cool the action was, is complete bullshit!
Even during seemingly "calm"
situations, it´s possible that the mere presence of particular
individuals (especially when she/he is already under repression
due to her/his/ "illegal"/"foreigner" status,
previous political activities or both), in a particular place
(for example at a demo), around particular people could be, even
after many years, used as evidence against her/him (or even their
friends).
We´ve often
been confronted with the argument that media presence serves
as a kind of protection from police violence. But then again
- documentation of ANY confrontations with the police forces
is always a two-edged sword. When dealing with that material,
one must be extremely cautious and think it through. And this
kind of material should be offerered to persons concerned.
We heard an opinion, that photos
are helping to mobilise people for the next action. We think
it´s more of a growing tendency to consume "radicalism"
on a computer screen. Is more actually being reported than done
these days? And on Indymedia, photos (and stupid comments) are
prevailing over good analysis and concepts for further struggle.
Even if pictures are bringing more people to demonstrations,
it´s still not an excuse to put people in danger. Publishing
pictures also has the sad effect of giving on-scene newcomers
the impression that filming on demos and actions is "something
normal".
We´ve
noticed ,that recently masses of people are prefering to become
"media activists" rather than "activists".
For any political protest, it seems really easy to get press-ID
from Indymedia - It is irresponsible! We are not for some closed,
elite spectrum of "radical journalists", but we do
start questioning the whole Indymedia-crew (and its helpers),
because we haven`t noticed any deeper discussion about the ideas
of left radical media, its values and responsiblities.
Cops know that Indymedia people
are much more accepted on demos than the mainstream press, so
they´re becoming easier and more valuable targets too.
The police attack on the Indymedia Centre in Genua didn´t
happened by accident... There, and in Gothenborg, they´re
still "working on materials", more and more repression
is probably still to come and maybe it's just luck that many,
many more have not been arrested Öyet.
In general, there seems to be a tendency to mistake
most media activism (which, when it is reduced to merely reporting
only "radical" actions - which is in fact just a technical
issue) for political activism (which actualises political processes).
It´s sad, but in current times, when so many people, in
the left radical movement as well, don´t seem to have many
political perspectives, many are grasping media activism just
because they want to "do something". This process is
a bit like capitulation, but it also shows a lack of concrete
discussions on organising as well.
In
the past, there weren´t so many pictures taken of actions
and the repressive apparatus worked differently then as well.
Surveillance is reaching deeper and deeper into our lives and
we just hope that it's still not too late for far-going discussion
in the movement on how to fight it.
Basically, alternative radical media is necessary,
but the responsibility that it bears is enormous. How many times
have we already seen how some events get reported completely
wrong, full of "positive" lies. What are the reasons
for that?
Indymedia must
confront itself with the fact that it is creating a situation
where it seems that anybody can film/take photos without thinking
about it's (eventual) function, sense and danger. Till now, we
haven't found any signs of internal or external discussion about
these problems, it is time to ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR RESPONSIBILTY!!!
Anyway, there is a lot of
ways to make good radical creative and responsible political
media without endangering any political activists (or only those
that are consciously taking it into account)... - the pirate
radio in Brussels has been one of the best recent examples.
All cameras will be trashed!
This is the final warning!
It is now 5 to 12°°!
traduction
by tatahari
8:57am
Fri Jan 25 '02
Les appareil-photos
à la poubelle! par le ggsoliaktion 3:45pm
Fri janv. 25 '02 ggsoli@squat.net
Une critique de l'attitude d'Indymedia,
d'autres medias alternatifs et d'individus pendant les manifestations
à Bruxelles (décembre 2001)
Après avoir participé aux manifestatins
contre l'Eu-Sommet en décembre 2001 à Bruxelles,
nous sommes encore fâchés au sujet du nombre de
photos et de vidéos prises pendant les différentes
manifestations. À Bruxelles ce n'était pas la première
fois que nous avons noté celà (évidemment
cela s'était produit avant, mais pas sur une si grande
échelle), ainsi nous espèrons que par cette critique,
nous pourrons commencer un processus de discussion que nous nous
sentons est essentiel.
En
fait il y a (ou avait) un consensus en l'Allemagne (et d'après
ce que nous savons, dans beaucoup d'autres pays aussi bien) pour
ne pas utiliser des appareils-photo et des vidéo-appareils-photo
sur des actions, des manifestations, etc... À Bruxelles,
nous avons été vraiment choqués - côté
droit, côté gauche, de face nos visages, étaient
partout photographiés, même pendant la manif anarchiste
samedi. À tel point que les gens qui prenait des photos,
ont presque arrêtés les manifestants qui marchaient,
pour prendre juste des projectiles de plan rapproché d'eux.
Nous avons vu des situations ridicules et extrêmement absurdes,
quand les médias alternatifs et ceux de la police ont
formés un seul et même groupe, encerclant des endroits
où des actions directes (cassant des fenêtres, pulvérisant,
etc...) avaient eu lieu. Cela n'a pas toujours semblé
déranger quiconque... POURQUOI?!!
Nous avons essayé d'arrêter cette
photographie stupide et dangereuse, ou de pousser au moins n'importe
quel genre de journaliste hors de la manif, mais naturellement
il y en avait un trop grand nombre... De prétendus médias
alternatifs (par exemple Indymedia Allemagne) nous avons entendu
des rapports idiots, comme '"les photos et les matériaux
de film aident à legitimer notre résistance".
Une telle attitude vient partiellement d'une foi naïve et
profonde dans le système "démocratique"
("nous devons seulement expliquer VRAIMENT nos positions
et elles vont être comprises") et partiellement d'une
mentalité de censure de peacnik (?) ("de toute façon,
nous ne voulons faire rien illégal" - comme indiqué
par l'un de ces types qui considère que ne rien faire
d'autre que de distribuer d'ennuyeux flyers réformistes
"n'est pas bon pour le mouvement"). Les personnes d'Indymédia
avec lesquelles nous avons essayé de parler ont simplement
ignoré notre position ou nous ont assuré qu'elles
"savent traiter le matériel". Nous avons vu
après que ce n'était pas le cas puisqu'un bon nombre
d'images, dans lesquelles les visages sont reconnaissables, ont
été édités en ligne et qu'un type
d'Indymedia a été arrêté avec 6 rouleaux
de film. Il est clair que la police utilisera les matériaux
confisqués pour criminaliser les manfestants. Ainsi, il
n'y a aucune raison de prendre les photos ou les vidéos
dans lesquels vous pouvez voir (et quand les flics le veulent,
ils peuvent identifier n'importe qui à partir d'images
de vraiment mauvaises de qualité, de bien meilleure façon
que vos amis les plus proches pourraient le faire) toutes les
manifestations. Ou peut-être voulez-vous aider les flics?
Nous espérons qu'il
est évident pour vous, que prendre des photos pour les
mettre dans l'album de famille ou se vanter de ce que la manif
était cool, est une connerie complète!
Même pendant des situations apparemment "calmes",
il est possible que la seule présence d'individus particuliers
(particulièrement quand elle/il est déjà
en danger du fait de son statut "d'étranger illégal",
en raison de ses activités politiques précédentes
ou des deux), dans un endroit particulier (par exemple à
une manifestation), parmi certaines personnes pourrait même
après beaucoup d'années, être utilisée
comme preuve contre elle/lui (ou même leurs amis).
Nous avons été
souvent confrontés avec l'argument que la présence
de médias sert de protection contre la violence de police.
Mais d'un autre côté - la prise de photos de TOUTES
LES confrontations avec les forces de police, est toujours une
épée à deux tranchants. En traitant ce matériel,
on doit être extrêmement prudent . Et ce genre de
matériel devrait être remis aux personnes concernées.
Nous avons entendu une opinion,
ces photos aident à mobiliser des personnes pour la prochaine
action. Nous pensons que cela correspond à une tendance
croissante de consommer le "radicalisme" sur un écran
d'ordinateur. Peut-on être filmé plus réellement
que de nos jours? Et sur Indymedia, les photos (et les commentaires
stupides) règnent plus que les bonnes analyse et concepts
pour davantage de lutte. Même si les images apportent plus
de personnes aux manifestations, ce n'est toujours pas une excuse
pour mettre des personnes en danger. L'édition des images
a également l'effet triste de donner à des nouveaux
venus, l'impression que le pelliculage sur des manifs et des
actions est "quelque chose de normal".
Nous avons noté, que récemment les
gens préfèrent devenir des "activistes de
médias" plutôt que des "activistes".
Pour n'importe quelle manifestation politique, il semble vraiment
facile d'obtenir une carte de membre d'Indymedia - C'est irresponsable!
Nous ne sommes pas pour une élite fermée de "journalistes
radicaux", mais nous commençons à nous interroger
sur Indymedia-en son entier (et ses aides), parce que nous n'avons
rien noté de profond quant aux discussions au sujet des
idées des médias radicaux de gauches, de ses valeurs
et des responsabilités.
Les
flics savent que les gens d'Indymédia sont davantage reçus
sur des manifs que la presse traditionnelle, ainsi ils deviennent
des cibles plus faciles et plus valables aussi. L'attaque de
police sur le centre d'Indymedia à Gênes ne fut
pas un accident... Là, et à Göteborg, la police
"travaille toujours sur vidéos et photos", de
plus en plus de répression est probablement toujours à
venir et c'est une chance juste que beaucoup, beaucoup plus de
personnes n'aient pas été arrêtées...
encore.
En général,
il semble qu'il y ait une tendance à confondre la plupart
des médias activistes (qui, quand leur activité
est réduite à enregistrer simplement seulement
des actions "radicales" - est en fait juste une issue
technique) avec l'activisme politique (qui actualise des processus
politiques). Il est regrettable, mais dans des périodes
actuelles, quand tant de personnes, dans le mouvement radical
gauche aussi bien, ne semblent pas avoir beaucoup de perspectives
politiques, beaucoup se saisissent de l'activisme de médias
juste parce qu'elles veulent "faire quelque chose".
Ce processus est vécu comme une capitulation, mais il
montre également un manque de discussions concrètes
sur l'organisation.
Dans
le passé, il n'y avait pas eu autant de photos prises
des actions et de l'appareil répressif a fonctionné
différemment puis aussi bien. La surveillance atteint
de façon plus en plus proche nos vies et nous espérons
juste qu'il n'est toujours pas trop tard pour une discussion
sur le fond dans le mouvement sur la façon de la combattre.
Fondamentalement, les médias
radicaux alternatifs sont nécessaires, mais la responsabilité
qu'ils portent est énorme. Combien de fois nous ont remarqué
comment quelques événements étaient rapportés
de manière complètement fausse, pleine de mensonges
"positifs". Quelles sont les raisons de cela?
Indymédia doit se confronter
avec le fait qu'il crée une situation où il semble
que quiconque peut prendre des photos ou des films sans penser
au sens, à la fonction, au danger de tout cela. Jusqu'à
maintenant, nous n'avons trouvé aucun signe de discussion
externe ou interne au sujet de ces problèmes, il est temps
DE RECONNAÎTRE VOTRE RESPONSABILITÉ!!!
Quoi qu'il en soit, il y a beaucoup de façon
de faire de bons médias radicaux politiques créateurs
et responsables, sans mettre en danger aucun des activistes politiques
(ou seulement ceux qui tiennent compte consciemment du danger)...
- la radio pirate à Bruxelles a été un des
meilleurs exemples récents.
Tous
les appareils-photo seront foutus à la poubelle!
Dernier avertissement!
Il est maintenant 5 à 12°°!
|
|
Let's discuss
about it. "All cameras will be trashed!"
is no way to speak to other activists. Some
point.
[1] You talk about
a "consensus to not use cameras and video-cameras on actions"
in Germany. There's not such consensus in Belgium, there's no
problem between demonstrators or activists and media activists.
Respect the situation in one place when you come, don't take
for granted the habits of another place.
[2] Pix can be used against people who do actions,
that's true, but: - police have brilliant ressources
to shoot far better pix than us. - activists
that make illegal action are acting with mask and clothes that
fit to it. - if any activists ASK someone from
indymedia NOT to take pix or film, s)he'll do it.
[3] Not everybody have the same opinion as you,
plenty of people come to our websites just to see pix of the
""violent"" actions, 'oh, look, i'm there!'
[4] The only real question
is about content. Do we need all thoses pix of brokken windows.
No, we need content. And in that kind of demos it's really difficult
top have anyone talking about political issues...that's a pity,
because their actions won't never be understood but by themselves.
[5] Maybe there's too much
people making photos and videos in the demos. What's sure is
that there's lot of people doing pix that we'll never see anywhere,
and that's a real pity.
[6]
Alternative and independent media is a real need for the movement.
Act in a positive way towards it. "Trash all camera"?
You really don't know who's the real enemy, or what?
Cheers .
|
|
|
I am sick
of being photographed too.
by
Tim 9:47am Fri Jan 25 '02 |
|
I am in no way
part of illegal stuff. I usually like to have a spliff before
a demo, but that's it. It is a personal decision. But I too am
really fucked off with bloody wannabes waving their bloody digital
cameras around. Most of the results that I ever see are just
happy snaps and wobblyscope video. I think you should really
ask people before photographing them and NO ONE EVER EVER ASKED
ME. And I agree its getting worse by the minute. However I have
no problem with audio (maybe because you HAVE to ask someone
before interviewing them?) so look forward to be able to listen
to the sound of breaking cameras soon over the net.
|
|
Let's be serious
for a while.
* People taking
pictures cannot ask everybody in the crowd if they agree or not
to be on the picture. You can ask politely people with a camera
not to take a pic of you. Indymedia.be activists are in the demo,
like other activists, not taking pictures from the roofs, you
can see them and discuss with them.
* The meaning of a demonstration is to be seen, as
far as i know. So it seems logical that media-activists try to
have pix of it.
* We can
debate about how to do it the most responsible way to do alternative
coverage, there're lot of things that have to go better, but
i'm getting tired of reading more critcisms about alternative
media than about police or mainstream media. And even worst:
most of those texts are really agressive. Hallo! We've the same
goals!
|
|
Dans les
manifs, il y a beaucoup de caméras
by
Un membre d'Indy France 11:37am Fri Jan 25 '02 |
|
Le moindre tag
sur le sol mobilise 3 photographes, une petite affichette et
c'est une caméra DV qui si colle (et je ne parle pas des
actions plus muscléesÖ). Oui il
y a beaucoup trop de caméras qui si elles tombent dans
les mains des flics donneront plein d'infos. Nous devons limiter
les vidéos et les photos qui risquent de se retourner
contre nous (les flics ont déjà suffisamment de
matos). A Indymedia France ont essai de limiter
ce genre de problème, mais beaucoup de photos sont postées
par des internautes (peu par l'équipe même d'Indy
France). Et peu ou pas de matériel photo ou vidéo
reste au domicile des membres de l'équipe, en cas de "perquisition",
il n'y aura rien d'intéressant pour les flics.
|
|
cameras
by
me 2:09am Sat Jan 26 '02 |
|
-> I myself
sometimes take pictures. But i always care to take only photos
of people I know they don't care, or of the crowd [where no one
in specific can be identified]
->
It is true however that "protest" becomes more and
more a thing to consume. That's sad. Some people seem to find
it "hip" and "cool" to call themself "media
activist" an run around with their expensive digital cameras.
-> However i know that
there are a lot of really intelligent comrades with Indymedia,
who act in a way that does not put other people into danger.
-> I believe Indymedia
is necessary for the movement. Independent Information IS indeed
"independent", it might happen you'll find things you
don't fully agree with. But if we can't deal with a democratic
independent way of information, how can we pretend to fight for
such a kind of society ??
-> Recognizing all the positive points of indymedia,
i agree that there should nevertheless be a discussion about
methods. F.ex. ON Indymedia germany, if you post pictures, most
people will expect that you have digitaly altered it in a way
no one can be identified. I find this a good solution...
|
|
* To hide faces
to make people not recognizable? I don't really like that idea.
They do so in Germany both for pix and movies, even for calm
demo. It seems that the atmosphere and the culture of activists
is different there.
* To
me hiding faces makes people looking like criminals. Why should
we hide? It's like saying we don't dare to face our enemies.
On specific action me may mask ourselves, to protect ourselves.
For exemple illegal refugees used to wear white plastic masks.
It became a symbole and didn't look as agressive as black fabric
masks.
* It may also breed
a "paranoia" atmosphere. We have to considere what
to fear the most. I don't think media activists work is helping
anyhow the police. We should be more suspicious about our phones,
mobile phones, e-mails, gathering places, agendas, etc. It's
much more important for police and intelligence services to know
the structures, plans and habits of the organizations and activists
groups.
* But i can understand
the fear of some people, and we have to build up dialog about
it. But "no camera" is not a way to deal with that
issue. Every action / gourp may have it's own policy about it,
that we could discuss before the actions, etc... .
|
|
@redkitten
by
me 5:06am Sat Jan 26 '02 |
|
-> You say,
covering faces makes you look like criminals. I
agree. But i don't think that this always is "bad"
(it can be, of course) . But wouldn't you agree that in "our"
society, questioning the State and its fundaments includes questioning
the laws, which equals to "beeing a criminal".....
->in germany , the habit
to alter pictures has a very good reason: the fascist organisations
there, in some regions, do a thing they call "anti-antifa"
: collecting and spreading information about antifascist .. there
have even been "death lists" spread in right-wing-internet
communities with the names an pictures of the "red scum"...
of course, this situation
is (luckily) still an exception, and in belgium maybe the confrontations
between the different antagonistic forces aren't yet led in a
way that would require general "face-hiding". But we
still do have do discuss in which manner the media-hype could
put in danger our comrades.
f.ex.
in germany, it happend that mainstream media "sold"
their archived close-up picture material to the police....we
shouldn't be too naive in our relations with media and camera
of any kind
-> but i fully
agree this discussion cannot be done by threatening to "smash
all cameras" .....
|
|
BASTA DE
INFANTILISMOS
by
Michael Collins 6:23am Sat Jan 26 '02 |
|
SI QUIERES HACER
ALGO EN SERIO, DE VERDAD, DEBES PARAR DE JUGAR A LA REVOLUCION
Y PREPARALA YA! NO PENSAR EN TIRAR LAS CAMARAS A LA BASURA, O
LO QUE ES MAS GRAVE, DESTRUIR ALGUNAS, YA QUE TRABAJO NOS HA
COSTADO ADQUIRIRLAS, PARA HACER EL TRABAJO POLITICO QUE AVECES
DESPRECIAN ALGUNOS PSEUDOREVOLUCIONARIOS . NOSOTROS TRABAJAMOS
EN LA CLANDESTINIDAD Y TENIAMOS REPORTEROS DE GUERRA YA QUE HABIA
QUE DAR A CONOCER LAS ACTIVIDADES QUE SE REALIZABAN. SI VAS A
UNA ACTIVIDAD DE CONFRONTACION PREPARA LA AUTODEFENSA CON LA
GENTE DEL LUGAR Y NO INVADAS MANIFESTACIONES NI JUEGUES CON EL
FUTURO DE LA GENTE, CUBRETE EL ROSTRO, BASTANTE TENEMOS CON TENER
QUE RESGUARDAR NUESTRA SEGURIDAD Y MATERIAL QUE TANTO NOS HA
COSTADO COMO PARA QUE TENER ADEMAS QUE CUIDAR LA SEGURIDAD DE
ALGUNOS QUE SE LAS DAN DE SUPER REVOLUCIONARIOS Y NO SON CAPACES
DE PONERSE BIEN UN PASAMONTAÑAS O UN CUBRE ROSTRO Y QUE
ADEMAS AVECES AMENAZAN A LAS PERSONAS QUE NOS ENCONTRAMOS ALLI
CUBRIENDO LA ACTIVIDAD PARA LUEGO DARLA A CONOCER. QUEMAR NEUMATICOS,
ROMPER BANCOS Y COCHES, ENFRENTARSE CON LA POLICIA EN UNA MANIF.
NO ES UNA BUENA MANIFESTACION NI EL COMIENZO DE LA REVOLUCION...
HAY QUE ORGANIZAR RESISTENCIA, VIVIR RESISTENCIA, COMER RESISTENCIA
PARA GOLPEAR ORGANIZADO. HAY QUE COMENZAR TAMBIEN A SABER QUE
PIENSA, COMO DUERME Y HASTA QUE COME EL ENEMIGO Y NO LLEGAR A
UNA MANIF. Y ENCONTRARSE LUEGO INFILTRADO POR TODOS LADOS CUAL
BARCO DE PAPEL EN UN OCEANO.
A
ORGANIZAR RESISTENCIA...
|
|
@"michael
collins"
by
,... 1:16pm Sat Jan 26 '02 |
|
would you mind
writing your diskussion posts in a language that ordinary people
like me understands too ...f.ex. french, english.....??
|
|
NO HABLA
NI LEE CASTELLANO EL NENE?!
by
Michael Collins 2:25pm Sat Jan 26 '02 |
|
QUE PENA QUE
NO ENTIENDAS LA LENGUA DE UN CONTINENTE QUE TIENE MUCHAS COSAS
QUE ENSEÑAR Y QUE HA SERVIDO DE LABORATORIO PARA EXPERIENCIAS
DE IZQUIERDA Y DERECHA. SOLO PUEDO RECOMENDARTE
QUE APRENDAS CASTELLANO("ESPAÑOL")Y QUE AGREGUES
UN POQUITO DE HUMILDAD A LO QUE APRENDERAS. LO
UNICO QUE SE DECIRLES A LOS APRENDICES DE "FACHAS"
QUE SI ME TOCAN A MI O A MI MATERIAL QUE SE ATENGAN A LAS CONCECUENCIAS.
MC NOTA: A TOMARSE EN SERIO
LA LUCHA, APRENDAN A CUBRIRSE LA CARA SI QUIEREN LUCIRSE EN UNA
MANIFESTACION, BASTA DE JUGAR A LA REVOLUCION O A QUERER JUNTAR
"AVENTURAS" PARA CONTAR A SUS HIJOS. AH!, Y SI QUIEREN
ROMPER CAMARAS, COMIENCEN POR LAS DE LA POLICIA QUE ESAS LAS
COMPRAN CON LOS IMPUESTOS QUE PAGAN SUS PAPIS Y USTEDES CON TANTA
COCACOLA QUE TOMAN Y TANTO LEVI'S.
|
|
Indymedia
ne doit pas être la seule à s'assumer, c'est à
tout à chacun de le faire !
by
turlututu 9:39am Sun Jan 27 '02 |
|
Tout d'abord
merci pour la traduction à Tatahari sans qui je n'aurais
pas lu cette article (l'anglais m' exaspère), mais il
est essentiel que des médias couvrent de tels événements
(rappelons nous de Carlo Giulliani) même si cela comporte
certains dangers; la seule solution est que chacun s'impose une
censure dans certaines conditions (bien que ca ne soit pas très
objectif). Moi-même je viens de m'acheter
un handycam, parce que je pense que c'est un gage contre les
abus de la police et qu'il permet non seulement d'informer mais
aussi de conscientiser les gens sur le réel état
de la pseudo "démocratie" dans laquelle nous
vivons. C'est un combat contre la désinformation ne l'oublier
pas !
|
|
Comments
by
Cam man 6:41am Wed Jan 30 '02 |
|
In
the IMC "Principles of Unity" which imc's have to sign
up to to be part of imc network it says:
[3. All IMC's respect the right of activists who
choose not to be photographed or filmed.]
At every international large demo imc I've ever
been to people always take pains to say don't take pictures of
this or that and legal briefings are always given about powers
of cops to seize film / footage etc.
That said things are often very different on the
streets - the best laid plans... etc etc
You said you tried to stop dangerous picture taking
(great) but i would be intersted to know if those people you
spoke to stopped taking pictures or just carried on regardless
(you don't say, you just note their replies).
RE: "We have seen extremely
absurd and ridiculous situations, when alternative, corporate
(and police) media formed lines together, encircling places where
direct actions (breaking windows,spraying,etc.) had been taking
place. This still didn´t seem to be disturbing for anybody"
Couple of points - first
off i would hope alt media people were only taking pictures that
did not include people (ie windows, grafiti). That said it is
not weird for alt media people to stand next to cops at all,
sometimes it's the best place, sometimes you want to be in the
right place to photograph the cops if they go smashing people's
skulls. There were other situations when lots of people with
cameras along with other protestors encircled groups of undercover
cops and forced them out of the area (by the way many instances
of provovateurs have been revealed through such footage over
the last couple of years).
The
number of people filming and taking pictures in Brussels was
perhaps more obvious because there weren't that many people there
after the large union march, as opposed to other events.
However, and this is an important
point in relation to what you're saying, when u look at the number
of people who posted pictures on the imc site this was minimal.
The majority of people taking pictures were not taking them to
post on indymedia - so they're either the personal keepsake types
(of the media art student variety or just activists with cameras,
of which there are many indeed), corporate media scum (of whom
there were a lot), freelancers (who sell to corporate media scum),
cops or tourists.
A similar
thing goes with video cameras too.
I
do agree however indymedia ID cards are a dangerous joke since
they appear to say i'm a friendly person, but they mean nothing.
They should not be trusted fully.
RE:
"Cops know that Indymedia people are much
more accepted on demos than the mainstream press, so they´re
becoming easier and more valuable targets too. The police attack
on the Indymedia Centre in Genua didn´t happened by accident..."
No you're correct it was
no accident, however the purpose of the raid was not the seizure
of materials. Yes they took a few cameras, a few discs and a
few tapes, but they left a much larger amount behind - this was
not the purpose of the raid be clear about that, and understand
why they really wanted to hit indymedia - because it's being
successful at getting info out etc. (note: precautions over film
materials ARE routinely taken).
RE: "we haven`t noticed
any deeper discussion about the ideas of left radical media,
its values and responsiblities"
This is discussed on the many mailing lists of indymedia,
rather than onsite. But I agree more public discussion would
be good, and a more structured presentation of good practice
'how to' guides for those new to the ideas of media activism
could be put on indymedia sites more prominantly.
I think that the general point you make about indymedia
encouraging a camera culture may be true, but it's also a lot
to do with more people simply having access to the kit. There's
also some cultural differences too which need to be taken into
account. In the UK we have one of the most comprehensive surveillance
societies in the world (lots of cop cameras and cctv) and a dirty
right wing press coupled with a situation where violence and
property destruction on larger demonstrations are for the most
part much less than those seen in a lot of europe. In other places
the situations are very different - some imc people black out
every face in a crowd from their pictures.
Re "All cameras will be trashed! This is the
final warning!" this just makes me seriously angry after
a good setting out of some important issues and makes me want
to rant about black block people taking pictures of themselves
outside damaged property and other taking pics of which I have
seen many, so please include these people too. Also out of the
many times I've seen people in trouble for having cameras, most
were doing things that were well out of order - most had their
film destroyed and not the camera, others did have the camera
destroyed, others were physically beaten, other just had their
cameras stolen. In the situations when people have approached
me while taking pictures a quick chat has sufficed to re-assure
(digi cameras at least allow you to show what you've just taken
pictures of), that said several friends have been beaten by cops
and protestors alike just for being in possession of a camera,
which is bullshit.
|
|
|